Yes, it may seem impractical to place the panties beneath the garters. But since when does fine ladylike accoutrement equal practicality?
Looking like a lady -- in terms of the classic definitions of "feminine" and "ladylike" -- is also about acting like a lady. And that's not about practicality.
Wearing layers of lingerie, especially classic lingerie pieces, is about enjoying the aspects of being a woman, not about ease of things. Yes, we want the lingerie to fit properly, to flatter us and feel comfortable; but these items of intimate apparel are not about who can, well, pee the quickest. Why do you think there were (are?) all those jokes about how long it takes a woman to go to use the facilities? It does take us longer. Especially when we are there, undoing and then redoing all the bits of glamour which, by definition, are charms that accent us, enhance us, to glorify us. And that means more than reapplying lipstick, you know.
We enjoying having you wait -- knowing we're worth the wait.
I think that's why so many of us enjoy wearing classic lingerie pieces -- be it authentic vintage or vintage styled. Because we enjoy taking the time, making the time, to celebrate our femininity. Not only to celebrate ourselves in a world dominated by negative statements about, attitudes towards, and laws limiting women. But it can be a real luxury to slow down and enjoy the experience of being a woman when our lives are also so busy they dictate time-saving-practicality. It's our defense against the rush-rush -- even if we keep it hush-hush.
If dressing, and undressing, were all about practicality, we'd only wear jeans. Or, when wearing dresses and skirts, pantyhose. No, practicality isn't the reason.
Lingerie isn't only about the romance of others, the appeal to men, or our desires to attract me. How can it be when we wear it everyday but keep it hidden? You see, lingerie romances us too. It goes way past the appearance, wearing it alone or how it affects our fashions, to affect our feelings about ourselves -- including, but not limited to, the experiences of engaging in enjoyable. Maybe we can't indulge everyday... But as often as we can, we do.
Image Credits: Ivory lace garter belt over blue satin panties via Nanettes Vintage of Penny Lane, black embroidered lingerie, featuring a lovely embroidered garter belt, from Secrets In Lace, and Bettie Page.
UPDATE: Another follow-up on the issue!
13 comments:
Ok, that's pretty definitive, then. and none of us want to lessen the allure of women...so let them take all the time they want in the bathroom!
Sorry Slip - I still think you're wrong on this one! Panties must go over belt - for sexual reasons and other obvious practicality - would a woman really undo everthing every time she visited the bathroom?
Mike (UK fan)
Mike, when you ask "would a woman really" of an actual woman who has said she does, you seem to be questioning my womanhood!
Yes, we really undo every time a visit to the restroom is necessitated. As tarzanzardoz asked, how or what we undo may vary based on the exact items we are wearing. We usually have to adjust stockings, anyway. (More in the original post.)
As for the "sexual reasons," that's more to do with the pornification of lingerie. That fantasy or fantasy starting point of panties over garter belts so that the former can be removed while the latter remains is what is shown primarily in men's mags, not lingerie catalogs. (Again see original post.)
Yes, we women do sometimes cater to the desires of our partners (and ourselves too) by putting on items in an order which allows partners access while keeping certain undergaments on; but that's for, shall we say, "entertainment" purposes, which isn't lingerie's original purpose or design intent. It's us throwing you a bone, so to speak *wink*
As I said originally, you don't see panties over girdles or panties over corsets with garters. So it follows that panties also are to be worn beneath garter belts. Practicality, or the lack thereof, for restrooms or bedrooms, isn't the point.
Even if you might wish it were ;)
Confusing the secret world of women (which I graciously share with you!) with your desires or needs is a male pastime, I know; but it's rather insulting to insist you know better what women do -- really, I tell you the truth! :)
And for those ladies who do put panties over garter belts... As I've said before (again, I refer to the original post), I'm not the lingerie police; you wear your lingerie as you wish. I'm merely pointing out the tradition and original design intent.
Oh. This one seems to have hit near a nerve. I really enjoy wearing suspender belts, but I've never, ever worn pants under them. Neither did my mother, grandmother or any other female relative I saw getting dressed, say at a wedding in the 60s or any of the young women at school, always pants on top. (1960s Pantyhose then was imported from the States and for years far more expensive than stockings.)I wonder if this is a European/US thing. But I really don't think the pants on top is a male porn invention.
I've quite a few vintage photos of lingerie in 00s, 10s, 20s and 30s, all showing pants on top. But I think the main difference is that then, pants didn't have fitted leg openings. You know silky lacy french knickers, (or even open ones you know two separate legs attached to a waist band) so they didn't interfere with suspenders. I don't think the issue of under/on top really arose for women until the 50s(?) with fitted stretchy knickers? Donno!
The first time I saw a woman with panties under her garter was at Torture Garden a couple of years ago, really made me smile. When I'm wearing a dress/skirt and stockings, there is always a slip, and if it's a hot summer, chances are, I'll go commando. I'm sure I'm not alone.
I don't think there is room for any 'shoulds' to be involved in underwear selection. I wonder if this difference is cultural, geographical or just personal preference.
Personal style has a part to play. I don't think fiddling with lingerie in public toilets in a bar is that big a statement in femininity. I've been in more public toilets I want to get out of quickly than want to remain and preen in, without mentioning the fact female company, activity and conversation in pub and club bar toilets can have a hastening effect, the scarcity of female toilets (in the UK) means that as soon as you sit down there's someone urgently banging on the door and the quality of the company you have waiting for you is also a factor. Whatever way you go, it's personal choice, As a woman, isn't it about going with your own flow? Think we all love lingerie, me especially vintage styled lingerie, but we are not all the same.
Ah, more thoughts to contemplate!
By the way , did you know there is a language difference between the US and UK with these garments? The band round your waist that holds up your stockings, we call a suspender belt. The things attached to the bottom or corsets that hold up stockings are called suspenders and the horizontal decorated elasticated bands around your thigh to hold up stockings are called garters. Had to think for a mo what a garter belt was when I first read your article. One of the things I like about your blog is you are one of the few people who talk about petticoats. When you ask for them in shops today, in the UK, no-one knows what you are talking about.
“Its us throwing you a bone, so to speak *wink*”. Oh Slip, Oh, oh, oh, sometimes all I can do is shake my head and smile. You DO have a way with words.
Getting to the meat of the matter however, (wait! Did I just say that?) I really do have to agree with your take on the subject Slip. You and Bijoux have both covered it when you both stated that it’s really a personal choice. In this male’s outlook, if I have reached the point where it matters, it doesn’t matter! From an esthetic view, I prefer garter (suspender) belts over, but if you prefer under, hey, that’s fine too. I wonder if much of it isn’t cultural.
In most of the bars and clubs I have been in here in the US, the ladies facilities were much nicer than the men’s and I have never been in one where there was no ladies room. There may be some clubs like that but I have never been in one.
And I really, really don’t mind waiting for the lady, if she’s worth taking out, she’s worth waiting for.
Well Slip, I'm glad I got this exchange kicked off, but I can see it's not heading anywhere definitive. As the French would say, "chacune a son gout."
BTW, I did spend some time in ladies' bathrooms in my long-ago CD past, and they were always better than men's.
Let me suggest another whole topic: when is lingerie worn for one self, and when for others ("throwing a bone")? And what decides that occasion?
Wow Slip!
I didn't realise I was opening such a can of worms!
I'll leave aside the way such things are used in pornography, this is a world where reality is distorted in all manner of ways so doesn't really help on this occasion.
My view is mainly from the two women I have had long term relationships with (married 22 years currently lived with 15 years) and both - very different women in nearly every aspect - panties over suspender belts (garters for those in the USA) every time!
Slightly embaressing myself here - for pleasure I once dressed my partner and she was most amused that I made the mistake of putting her panties on first before her suspender belt and stockings!
As for practicality, my partner again, avoids public toilets (restrooms, bathrooms) unless desperate, so fumbling with suspender buttons etc would not be appreciated in an act that she wants to get over as quickly as possible!
Thank you Bijoux for confirming my thoughts and experiences (as limited as they may seem!)
Mike (UK fan)
Aside from Greg who, after stirring the pot to begin with, has wisely maintained neutrality, this seems to be cultural after all. UK is panties over, US is panties under. In the name of pure research I viewed a couple of UK and US vintage glamour sites and sure enough, they turned out the same UK under, US over. Granted, a data base of 4 or 5 people and 4 or 5 sites is not a very large one but enough for me to throw in the towel and say, "there you have it."
Ok Ricky, get it right this time. Go write on the chalkboard 100 times."UK panties over, US panties under."
I remember my mother wearing pants over suspenders.
Wifey Linda wears panties under suspenders in spite I like it more the other way round.
From a "doig sex" point of view, panties over is more practical but...
... helping her to unclip-clip to release her panties can be a wonderful foreplay !!!
I am enjoying this thread.... as a young boy whos' first introduction to the mystery of womens underthings came from the Pennys and Sears catalogs. I remember spending hours and even years trying to figure out what the sequence was and always wondering how women went to the bathroom.... So now I am still realizing that there is no clear consensus so I can continue enjoying the mystery....
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